visuals, etc. that made us fall for Chaos in the first place. I know so many of us dream of going back to the 3.5 book- which had so much character, imagination, flair, and so much content for those who wished to dedicate themselves entirely to a single legion. While times have changed, I believe that you could still pull it off for the most part. Have the Iron Warriors take allies from Imperial Guard- Leman Russ / Basilisks (traitor guardsmen or whatever for the troops). Word Bearers should team up heavily with Chaos Daemons (or the other way around?). The cult Marines are what they are (more on that later), but can be done. Alpha Legion SHOULD run cultist heavy (that is their nature, no?). The only ones I have a hard time seeing done "right" is Night Lords- not enough jump packs and bikes no matter what. It is my opinion that you could run your legion fairly close to the fluff- it's not perfect but way better than it was.
I played one guy this summer (in a 1000 point game I believe) who fielded 8 Land Speeders for his Dark Angels (whatever the LS variants are for Dark Angels), with his librarian casting on them. The guy wrecked me, as I had little to counter such prodigious and mobile fire power. At the end of the game he admitted to me that this army list, while powerful, wasn't fun for HIM to play, since all he's doing is moving out of my range, shooting, moving out of my range, etc. He was a nice guy and sportsmanlike player, but he spammed, knew it, and basically said "my list sucks, though it got me the win". How many players have I seen taking 3 Land Raiders ("Marines take Land Raiders. Its fluffy. Deal with it"). Cron Air, anyone? A billion crisis suits and Riptides? Players take strong units- then why is there such anger for someone who takes 2 Heldrakes? With all of this, my thinking on Heldrakes is evolving further, since the Space Marines will have 2 brutal anti-air tanks (more on that later). Perhaps I'll want to take 2 Heldrakes for insurance purposes.-could you blame me, if I know I'll be seeing Stalkers/Hunters? Or perhaps... none?!
4) Is The Maulerfiend...Worth It? Well, this has been an interesting one for me. I love the
Maulerfiend (it is perfectly suited for the World Eaters). However, it does get targeted... a friggin ton. Indeed, I have not actually seen it be effective, since it always gets shot to pieces. With Armor Value 12 and 3 hull points, it is just begging to be shot and glanced to death. I almost stopped taking it, since it rarely got to a target! However, last week I played against someone else (also using the Dark Angels book, but a much more varied list), and I had put the Mauler in the list after all. He moved his Land Raider forward to get a clear shot at the Maulerfiend- he smiled, figuring he'd just punch through with his Lascannons and then he... whiffed. He missed, even with twin linked. I was stupefied. What happened next? The Maulerfiend charged the Land Raider and blew to straight to hell- clawed his way clean through it. Next turn, he charged through a ruin to get to the guy's Dark Angel squad. He tore through them, and attacked yet another. By the end, he was attacking the squad that was ON the objective, thus contesting. The Maulerfiend single-handed turned a close 5-4 nail-biter of a game to a 5-1 blowout. Now, that got me thinking... 2 Maulerfiends? Hahahaha. I really don't know.
6) Codex Creep? When the book came out last year, many were very excited (first new book of 6th), and happy with the book. However, there were clearly issues and problems (over
costed Dreadnought HAD to be fixed, for example). The problem came with the next few books- Dark Angels, Tau, Eldar, and now, the hated Space Marines. Each book has been very strong- some argue that they are all better than the Chaos Marine book. Particularly, I look at this- the Heldrake was the premier model for the book, and powerful to boot. So what happened? They gave each book more skyfire options. Mein Gott- it feels like the whole Tau army has skyfire (they don't, but it feels like it)!! And now the Marines have 2 dedicated anti-air options AND 2 flyers! And what can Chaos Space Marines do about these flyers themselves? Heldrakes can take out other flyers (if they survive the Stalker/Hunters long enough to do anything), and... a Havoc that has a missile launcher and spends MORE points to get flakk and... that's it. Done. That is just poor planning on GW's part. And it DOES put Chaos at a disadvantage. Looking at Tau and Eldar, the Chaos Marine book does look like at times like it is more of a remnant of 5th than a real 6th edition book.
So, it does hurt that the Chaos Marine Codex is a bit slower, "older", and blander than the more recent books.
However, I do not believe that it is the doomsday that others feel it is. I have a few ideas about what Chaos players could do to even the score...
a) Stop taking Heldrakes?! I know that a lot of Space Marine players will be looking for sweet, sweet vengeance against all the baleflamers that burned them this past year. Thus, we can expect to be seeing a lot of Hunters/Stalkers on the tabletop. So, what should we do? Don't take Heldrakes. Let those fancy Hunters sit there and rot- in the new WD Battle Report it killed the Heldrake and pretty much did NOTHING the rest of the game. So when Space Marine players bring out 2 of those things... the joke will be on them- no heldrakes!.
d) Be Patient. Now look, a lot of Chaos players are looking at new Space Marine book and thinking "I'm screwed". Perhaps so. But I also know that weaknesses WILL be there. It will just take a bit of time to discover them (we can already see that Centurions are vulnerable to Daemons). Further, when the Tyranid and Ork books come out- there's going to be a ton of fun! Marine players will be hard pressed against the Xenos books, if Tau and Eldar are any indication. If the rumors are true, there will also be more supplements for Chaos, which is no bad thing. We just have to hang in there on this front.
To sum up, things are rough for Chaos players, but I do not think that it is THAT bad at all. The sky is not falling. Chaos players just need to adapt. I do agree that the newer codexes are much "fancier" than our book, and that certain things are unfair (Chaos could use more skyfire options, for example). However, Chaos Space Marines still have a lot to offer. No one should be saying that we Chaos players should just pack it in. No way. We must continue our war against the false emperor! Er... you know what I mean.
Until next time.
Couldn't agree more. I'm a Slaanesh Daemon player. I am CC only. Makes a lot of people scared when I pull up with 60 Daemonettes, 20 Seekers, a Keeper of Secrets, Daemon Prince and Soul Grinder... and then just run the entire army at them... It's usually a lot of fun. But I do get shot of the table a lot.
ReplyDeleteSo i am considering using CSM codex and allying in Daemons. Chaos Lord with Mark of Slaanesh, MSU Noise Marines as Troops with a blastmaster. A couple of these will provide some heavy long range support. I will then max out on Daemons (Daemonettes, Seekers, Keeper or Daemon Prince, Soul Grinder).
Having fun is more important to me than winning :)
Your plans for a Slaanesh army sound awesome, being both fluffy and tough to face. Yes, Daemons do tend to get shot, so having some CSM to back them up sounds like just the ticket to even things up.
DeleteYes, having a fun game is more important than winning- for me, I just want to know that I'm competitive, that I gave as good as I got, win or lose.
I agree completely. I have NEVER used a Helldrake, and I've felt the lack of it either. Likewise, my "crap" troops such as Khorne Berserkers and Possessed have won me more than my fair share of games. Net-lists aren't the be-all and end-all. They lead to codified fiction, almost a doctrine, and I've never been a fan of doctrine of any kind.
ReplyDeleteA lot of it depends on your play style, tactics that you use, and of course the roll of the dice. I have had games where I have used 2 Heldrakes, and games where I've used none. I am now finishing a second Maulerfiend- again, people would say that they aren't good and I should take more Obliterators. However, I just think that A Khorne Bezerker force having 2 Maulerfiends is more characterful then them having Obliterators or Havocs.
Delete